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	<title>Comments on: Get Vouchers Right Next Time</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/</link>
	<description>Recording Bits and Pieces of Heaven in Theory and Practice</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-7019</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 03:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-7019</guid>
		<description>Perhaps another lesson to be learned from the voucher debate should be that trying to ram legislation through before building the popular support can have the effect of setting back your efforts in very crippling ways.

I would hate to see the options of more parental choice silenced for a decade while we continue to struggle with improving our public education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps another lesson to be learned from the voucher debate should be that trying to ram legislation through before building the popular support can have the effect of setting back your efforts in very crippling ways.</p>
<p>I would hate to see the options of more parental choice silenced for a decade while we continue to struggle with improving our public education.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Delaney</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-7015</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Delaney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 01:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-7015</guid>
		<description>I am pretty sure that the lost vote will stomp on all attempts at parental choice legislation in Utah for at least a decade.

The referendum that we voted down was actually pushed by the anti-voucher people. This method is likely to be used in other states to stop debate.

In that regard, I would suggest other states interested in vouchers actually start the process with a referendum. The referendum would simply authorize the government to come up with a mechanism of vouchers or tax credits to aid parental choice. Otherwise the vote will always be lost on the specifics of the bill and not on the question of parental choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty sure that the lost vote will stomp on all attempts at parental choice legislation in Utah for at least a decade.</p>
<p>The referendum that we voted down was actually pushed by the anti-voucher people. This method is likely to be used in other states to stop debate.</p>
<p>In that regard, I would suggest other states interested in vouchers actually start the process with a referendum. The referendum would simply authorize the government to come up with a mechanism of vouchers or tax credits to aid parental choice. Otherwise the vote will always be lost on the specifics of the bill and not on the question of parental choice.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3844</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 12:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-3844</guid>
		<description>Obviously they have not learned their lesson about ugly politics yet. I can&#039;t say that I&#039;m surprised.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously they have not learned their lesson about ugly politics yet. I can&#8217;t say that I&#8217;m surprised.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3819</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-3819</guid>
		<description>And what do you know? PCE&#039;s hired gun pirate used his &quot;letter of marque&quot; to send more spam just moments ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what do you know? PCE&#8217;s hired gun pirate used his &#8220;letter of marque&#8221; to send more spam just moments ago.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3817</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 23:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-3817</guid>
		<description>Better to not support the ugly politics of PCE and the high future costs of these vouchers than get the benefit of vouchers now while implicitly accepting the poor tactics of PCE and then try to close the financial drain of the current voucher laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better to not support the ugly politics of PCE and the high future costs of these vouchers than get the benefit of vouchers now while implicitly accepting the poor tactics of PCE and then try to close the financial drain of the current voucher laws.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3811</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 21:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-3811</guid>
		<description>re: Jason Black
The voucher bills were a result of 8 years of work. The sponsors obviously thought that it was a good enough product, even with the compromises. I doubt the sponsors would have pushed the bills if they would have known that this referendum and almost certain defeat would be the result.

re David:
This is the end of vouchers in Utah for a long time. That&#039;s how the referendum will be spun. Nuanced decisions for voting no, like David&#039;s justifications, will be lost. 

It&#039;s sad because Utah schools are only average according to the standardized test such as the National Assessment on Educational Progress. http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/profile.asp   

Only 39% of 4th graders are proficient at Math (over the past 15 years this has dramatically improved, but Utah&#039;s improvement has mirrored that national trend). Only 30% of 8th grades read proficiently at their grade level. Only 33 percent of 4 and 8th graders are proficient at their grade level in science.  A mere 20 percent of 4th graders write proficiently at their grade level.  

This is sad. Many argue that Utah didn&#039;t need vouchers because its schools are &quot;good enough.&quot; These numbers don&#039;t suggest that Utah schools are good enough.  It suggests that Utah&#039;s schools need help--a lot of help. The voucher program was one way to create new incentives to hopefully produce better academic results. That is obviously debatable, but this is the end of the line for a voucher program for this generation of Utah&#039;s students.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: Jason Black<br />
The voucher bills were a result of 8 years of work. The sponsors obviously thought that it was a good enough product, even with the compromises. I doubt the sponsors would have pushed the bills if they would have known that this referendum and almost certain defeat would be the result.</p>
<p>re David:<br />
This is the end of vouchers in Utah for a long time. That&#8217;s how the referendum will be spun. Nuanced decisions for voting no, like David&#8217;s justifications, will be lost. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s sad because Utah schools are only average according to the standardized test such as the National Assessment on Educational Progress. <a href="http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/profile.asp" rel="nofollow">http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/profile.asp</a>   </p>
<p>Only 39% of 4th graders are proficient at Math (over the past 15 years this has dramatically improved, but Utah&#8217;s improvement has mirrored that national trend). Only 30% of 8th grades read proficiently at their grade level. Only 33 percent of 4 and 8th graders are proficient at their grade level in science.  A mere 20 percent of 4th graders write proficiently at their grade level.  </p>
<p>This is sad. Many argue that Utah didn&#8217;t need vouchers because its schools are &#8220;good enough.&#8221; These numbers don&#8217;t suggest that Utah schools are good enough.  It suggests that Utah&#8217;s schools need help&#8211;a lot of help. The voucher program was one way to create new incentives to hopefully produce better academic results. That is obviously debatable, but this is the end of the line for a voucher program for this generation of Utah&#8217;s students.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3807</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;d say that there is little cause to argue with what was said regarding the referendum petition, but there may have been some signers of the petition, and there are definitely some who will vote &quot;no&quot; on Referendum 1, who support vouchers in principle but have to vote &quot;no&quot; because of the flaws of HB148 and HB174. That&#039;s where the spin comes in. Those who oppose vouchers in principle will want to spin every &quot;no&quot; vote as a vote against vouchers of any implementation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say that there is little cause to argue with what was said regarding the referendum petition, but there may have been some signers of the petition, and there are definitely some who will vote &#8220;no&#8221; on Referendum 1, who support vouchers in principle but have to vote &#8220;no&#8221; because of the flaws of HB148 and HB174. That&#8217;s where the spin comes in. Those who oppose vouchers in principle will want to spin every &#8220;no&#8221; vote as a vote against vouchers of any implementation.</p>
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		<title>By: voiceofutah</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3802</link>
		<dc:creator>voiceofutah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-3802</guid>
		<description>I think Jeremy has a point.  When I went door to door with voucher petitions, I never once heard, &quot;Well, I support vouchers, but I want people to be able to vote.&quot;  I only heard, &quot;No, thanks, I&#039;m in favor of vouchers,&quot; or &quot;I&#039;m against vouchers, where do I sign?&quot;  So, yes, the wording about the 124,000 was poor, but the sentiment was probably pretty close.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Jeremy has a point.  When I went door to door with voucher petitions, I never once heard, &#8220;Well, I support vouchers, but I want people to be able to vote.&#8221;  I only heard, &#8220;No, thanks, I&#8217;m in favor of vouchers,&#8221; or &#8220;I&#8217;m against vouchers, where do I sign?&#8221;  So, yes, the wording about the 124,000 was poor, but the sentiment was probably pretty close.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3798</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 15:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-3798</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a good question. I have heard it suggested that our low rate of private school attendance might be part of the reason. Other states have much higher percentages of the population enrolled in private schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a good question. I have heard it suggested that our low rate of private school attendance might be part of the reason. Other states have much higher percentages of the population enrolled in private schools.</p>
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		<title>By: rmwarnick</title>
		<link>http://www.davidjmiller.org/2007/get-vouchers-right-next-time/comment-page-1/#comment-3793</link>
		<dc:creator>rmwarnick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidjmiller.org/get-vouchers-right-next-time/#comment-3793</guid>
		<description>How and why did Utah get selected as the laboratory for this national experiment in school privatization?  At our own expense, I might add.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How and why did Utah get selected as the laboratory for this national experiment in school privatization?  At our own expense, I might add.</p>
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